about that health care thing...

[boogieshoes]

ok, so in metaquotes, there's a discussion going on about the NHC package, and i wrote something that i knew would sound pretty damned cold.  and i just wrote a phrase clarification, and i'm aware it's still pretty damned cold.  and in a way, i don't give a rat's ass about how cold people think me, because we're talking my money here, and how it gets spent, and how often it seems the government is spending my money on useless programs that don't actually improve anyone's quality of life.

and i'm almost crying about this.  but i think it's end-of-the-week blues combined with general tiredness.  but still, there's something wrong with a system that will care for an illegal alien who has no $$ and no insurance - but *won't* care for a *legal* citizen who just got dropped from their insurance and *is* making every effort to pay - but can't, because they aren't actually *poor enough* to qualify for welfare.  the system is fucking broken, all right?

and some of the things that have been brought up in that argument - SS and medicare - they don't actually make sense as arguments to me, because to my mind, *neither* of those programs are really viable.  or helpful in the long run.  actually, i'd be a lot more in favor of those programs if they were both *voluntary*, but they're not.

i've got no idea why i'm so freakin' upset, but *gah*!

-bs

Comments

[fractured-sun.livejournal.com]

This is why I am glad we have the NHS. It's not perfect by any stretch of the imagination and we all complain about it regularly, but everyone gets the appropriate medical care whatever their financial situation. No offence to anyone but I have always thought the American system seemed unfair and unreasonable.

[boogieshoes.livejournal.com]

i think everyone agrees tht the american system is unfair and unreasonable - the real debate is *how* to fix it. i don't happen to think what's before congress is going to work - i have a large number of fiscally conservative friends who agree with me... and an equally large number of fiscally liberal friends who think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread.

which... may be the root of my emotional angst right now. i know i probably raised a few eyebrows/ pissed people off in metaquotes (i was *very* cold), but with half my flist being so liberal, i don't really feel like i can explain/ discuss/ debate the NHS before congress *here* without either a) causing a conflageration of oceanic proportions, and/or b) losing the majority of my fannish flist (which i really *don't* want to do, because i like 'em even when i don't agree with them). the baen part of my flist - i'd say something and it'd be like preaching to the choir. which has it's upsides, but also can have the effect of suppressing discussion from the fannish folks.

and i don't want to suppress discussion, at all. angst angst angst.

*sighs* it's sad when your lj-life is more drama-prone than real life :-p

*hugs fractured_sun*

-bs

[brownkitty.livejournal.com]

::sigh::

About being cold, I can't really say much. I've wondered a time or two why crossing the border to have a baby doesn't result in the baby staying in a governmental orphanage and the mother (plus whatever illegal family she has with her) getting shipped back across the border.

[boogieshoes.livejournal.com]

*hugs* -bs

[spartanwerewolf.livejournal.com]

I agree slash disagree with the current U.S. health care plan and what's up before Congress. I agree that socialized health care is a good thing; at least everyone can get medical help when they need it, and not lose their home. Our system is flawed, for sure, and everyone bitches about it, but in the long run, I'd still rather have it then not.

On the other hand, what the government is trying to do probably won't work in the long run :/ You can't just patch the system, you need to overhaul it completely, and the American public won't let that happen. Damned if you do and damned if you don't, you know? I dunno. It's something that needs to be implemented, but I think they're going about it the wrong way. :/

*hugs* I hope I didn't make you mad with this, but I figured I'd toss my opinions hat in the ring. And I wouldn't worry about pissing off metaquotes, I've done that a couple of times. They'll get over it. As far as debate and discussion go, I'm always up for it, regardless of political leanings :D So if you ever want to discuss anything, my IM and etc are on my profile.

[boogieshoes.livejournal.com]

you didn't make me mad. i expect a lot of what various people *want*, as the end result, is the same. but getting there? argh! sturm und drang, we haz it!

*hugs*

but yeah, i'm more worried about pissing off my own flist than pissing of metaquotes - that's part of the reason i felt safer posting there than here. but i also, on reflection, felt more of a need to clarify what i meant on certain things not because i want to change people's opinion of *me*, but rather, i want them to be clear on *what* i have problems with. if they still think i'm a bitch, that's fine. i still think i'm a bitch, too. >_>


-bs

[spartanwerewolf.livejournal.com]

\o/

Also, I still love you ^_^ We all have our bitchy/asshole days. Hell, I even have at tag that says "Badger is an asshole", so :D

Also, this icon XD

[boogieshoes.livejournal.com]

*grins* -bs

As someone from a country with universal health care...

[sallymn.livejournal.com]

Which is unwieldy, imperfect and expensive but which we wouldn't give up for anything (fix up, yes, it's been amended and fiddled with and changed and updated for three decades or so now, like any human progress it's a work in progress)...

I've kept out of it, because it's nothing to do with me but I just feel - maybe what's on offer isn't as great as people want to think but it's something. You have to start somewhere... and then work on it.

I honestly can't understand why people who accept universal education as a right in their country somehow feel universal health care is beyond the socialist pale - but hey, most of them would see my whole country as leftwing to the point of pseudo-communist if they actually knew a thing about it...

Re: As someone from a country with universal health care...

[murstein.livejournal.com]

I honestly can't understand why people who accept universal education as a right in their country . . .

Actually, universal education in the US has been under assault . . . hmm. At least since 1982. (Probably longer than that, but I'm not going to go research it right now.)

Re: As someone from a country with universal health care...

[boogieshoes.livejournal.com]

I've kept out of it, because it's nothing to do with me but I just feel - maybe what's on offer isn't as great as people want to think but it's something. You have to start somewhere... and then work on it.

i understand that viewpoint, i really do, i just don't agree with it. i think we need to fix other things that feed into our health care issues *first*, and *then* worry about a NHC package. and of course, that's primarily what all the brou-ha-ha is about. everybody recognizes the system is seriously broken, but everyone also has different ideas on how to fix it.

as a fiscal conservative - not social, mind you, i'm socially pretty much right in line with most of media fandom - but as a *fiscal* conservative, i want a course of action that concentrates on preventing physical health issues from happening, preventing insurance problems from occuring, and preventing cock-ups in the FDA research and approval system. i'm not a flow manager of any sort, so i can't say for sure, but i'm willing to bet the current legislation will lead to a greater mess.

i actually want some kind of blended coverage system: public health insurance to a point, and then if you need more care, you're either paying out of pocket, or have your own insurance carrier. but one of my big issues right now is to make sure *everyone pays for services rendered* somehow, and not 'the working class ends up paying for everyone'.

thank you for commenting though, this sort of civilized disagreement reassures me my flist isn't going to flip out. :-p i'm feelin' the paranoia, and really needed that today.

*hugs*

-bs

Re: As someone from a country with universal health care...

[sallymn.livejournal.com]

one of my big issues right now is to make sure *everyone pays for services rendered* somehow, and not 'the working class ends up paying for everyone'. Oh, but it's like tax... of course some folk are going to rort the system, but me, I decided long ago that that was the price we paid for having civilisation.

Ours works on a 'levy' on your taxable income to pay for basic health cover; now that does mean that people who can avoid personal income tax through family trusts and companies don't pay, neither do the very poor who don't have enough income to pay tax. BUT the levy is then paid into general revenue, and the Commonwealth and states pay helth costs out of that (so the rich pay through other taxes). And this covers the right - for everyone, rich or poor, to have that basic cover. If you want more (private hospitals, choice of doctors in hospital, your choice of doctors or specialists who charge way over the stated amount, elective procedures not covered etc) you pay for it.

Yes, it's messy and rather illogical, but it works reasonably well.

Mind you, this does mean that the percentage of our taxes that go towards health is higher... which most people accept anyway.

[etumukutenyak.livejournal.com]

As a fiscal conservative, then, you should probably take a look at the actual costs of the current system, versus what this country will save with a universal health care plan. It costs thousands of dollars to treat a patient in the ED; contrast that to the hundreds of dollars a year to perform basic preventive health care.

Also, keep in mind that in this country (according to the US Census Bureau), 78% of all uninsured patients are US Citizens. That's 8 out of every 10 uninsured patients. Those same patients make up approximately 18-25% of all the patients that enter the ED across the US, and cost the taxpayers roughly $4 million per year, per state.

If we dropped our percentage of uninsured patients, more people would be able to afford decent health care.

The FDA is not part of the health care system. It is a regulatory agency, like OSHA, HUD, USDA, etc., with some research branches to support the regulatory side. Without the FDA, we would have had our own patients with thalidomide defects in this country. I don't think we should be demonizing the FDA for doing the job that they're supposed to be doing, which is acting as a regulatory stone wall to prevent unscrupulous and/or unprepared companies from releasing drugs which are dangerous. The real problem at the FDA is that they're understaffed and overworked.