Guys realize just how much crap lurks beneath the surface. One of the reasons why guys put women on pedestals, is because we know _men_ are that bad, and we hope _women_ are made of something better.
which is why guys will always be disappointed. we're not better, we're human, too. the good and the bad, and the dehumanizingly callous, and the monstrously ugly. we're all that, too. and until people understand that, grok that men and women are made up of essentially the same reactions as each other, the same base instincts and the same civilizing influences, we're not going to get *anywhere* in terms of gender politics, sexism, rape issues, etc ad nauseum. individuals of the same gender have far more differences from *each other* than the groups stats between one gender and the other.
i seriously think you're doing your gender a disservice by characterizing them as all pondscum. it's because you're *not* all pondscum that the rape stats *aren't* 100% of women, 75% or better of men, by the time they're 15. seriously. i think... a lot of people don't understand what they're *saying*, but i can't seriously believe that we're all that neck-deep in crud.
because if we *are* all that crappy? we might as well nuke ourselves now, because *there is no hope*. remember, i've seen the crap too. i've seen *an* elephant, even if it isn't *the* elephant, but it's still damned ugly and scary. but if all everybody can do is ride elephants, then all we have left is the Circus.
and i refuse to believe that. people aren't all about the Circus any more than they're all about the food on the table. and i can tell because we have things like Rodin and the Mona Lisa and the Parthenon and Celtic Knotwork and all sorts of beauty, things men create as well as women. if the male of the species was only a barely contained piece of crap, there wouldn't be beauty. there wouldn't be decency of *any* sort, let alone the real chivalry i've seen people display.
so no, i reject the idea that men are pondscum. they're not. i don't think 90% of guys really *think* about issues like these much - but i also think it's more of an 'out of sight, out of mind' thing, not deliberate obtuseness. that is, they don't have to deal with a lot of sexism or rape or abuse cases, so it does occur to them to spend brainpower on it. but that's not 'pondscum' thinking - that's *natural*, in the scheme of things. i don't think about racist commentary all that much, or the plight of the homeless, because i've never been there. and it's not that i'm not sympathetic when i hear about it, it's that i've got my own fish to fry, and people are inherently self-oriented (and that's not negative - you have to take care of yourself before you can take care of others).
so no, not pondscum. not always brain-engaged, but not pondscum. and this is a comforting thought to me, and it should be re-assuring to you. it means we have the means to improve our conditions - which is to say, even the people with the most power in the society in the traditional sense (yes, the old white male privilege thing) can be known to give a crap. that's what decency is.
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timeasmymeasure
no subject
Date: 2008-04-23 06:40 pm (UTC)which is why guys will always be disappointed. we're not better, we're human, too. the good and the bad, and the dehumanizingly callous, and the monstrously ugly. we're all that, too. and until people understand that, grok that men and women are made up of essentially the same reactions as each other, the same base instincts and the same civilizing influences, we're not going to get *anywhere* in terms of gender politics, sexism, rape issues, etc ad nauseum. individuals of the same gender have far more differences from *each other* than the groups stats between one gender and the other.
i seriously think you're doing your gender a disservice by characterizing them as all pondscum. it's because you're *not* all pondscum that the rape stats *aren't* 100% of women, 75% or better of men, by the time they're 15. seriously. i think... a lot of people don't understand what they're *saying*, but i can't seriously believe that we're all that neck-deep in crud.
because if we *are* all that crappy? we might as well nuke ourselves now, because *there is no hope*. remember, i've seen the crap too. i've seen *an* elephant, even if it isn't *the* elephant, but it's still damned ugly and scary. but if all everybody can do is ride elephants, then all we have left is the Circus.
and i refuse to believe that. people aren't all about the Circus any more than they're all about the food on the table. and i can tell because we have things like Rodin and the Mona Lisa and the Parthenon and Celtic Knotwork and all sorts of beauty, things men create as well as women. if the male of the species was only a barely contained piece of crap, there wouldn't be beauty. there wouldn't be decency of *any* sort, let alone the real chivalry i've seen people display.
so no, i reject the idea that men are pondscum. they're not. i don't think 90% of guys really *think* about issues like these much - but i also think it's more of an 'out of sight, out of mind' thing, not deliberate obtuseness. that is, they don't have to deal with a lot of sexism or rape or abuse cases, so it does occur to them to spend brainpower on it. but that's not 'pondscum' thinking - that's *natural*, in the scheme of things. i don't think about racist commentary all that much, or the plight of the homeless, because i've never been there. and it's not that i'm not sympathetic when i hear about it, it's that i've got my own fish to fry, and people are inherently self-oriented (and that's not negative - you have to take care of yourself before you can take care of others).
so no, not pondscum. not always brain-engaged, but not pondscum. and this is a comforting thought to me, and it should be re-assuring to you. it means we have the means to improve our conditions - which is to say, even the people with the most power in the society in the traditional sense (yes, the old white male privilege thing) can be known to give a crap. that's what decency is.
ok, i should stop lecturing now :-p
-bs